God is morally obligated to destroy Satan
09.04.05 (7:36 pm) [edit]
And yet he does not, why is this?
God created Satan but before he did so he knew (being omniscient) exactly what Satan would do, and yet still he decided to create this being. After that Satan uses the programs god built into him to rebel, lust, greed Etc... Now many Christians will point out that satan is the reason for Hell and the reason more then five out of six people go there and Not God. But when you go to Hell it is not even for a good reason, it is simply because you chose not to follow obscure religion no 1132.
Now god can see this, God knows what is happening to humanity and yet he does NOT for some reason destroy Satan, surely the word omnipotent means all powerfull, did God prehaps create an equal? he is after all powerfull ebough to do it, did he create a being he cannot predict or control? or does he just not destroy a simple ant, albeit a simple ant that send most of Gods creations to eternal suffering.
1.If Satan is Gods equal then God is not in control and Christians are wrong
2.If Satan is weak in comparison to God and God does not destroy him he is malicious
Simple as that.
posted by: DayTripper7 (reply)
post date: 09.04.05 (8:34 pm)
Because, there has to be a divine battle in EVERY story, Kup. There has to be drama, and there has to be a bad guy vs. a good guy.
I think that sums it up. If this proverbial God wanted to be successful - he's got to have some type of competition to make himself look better - and be the "good guy".
posted by: Kupov (reply)
post date: 09.04.05 (11:39 pm)
His competition makes him look weak and or evil/malicious.
posted by: MaxVel (reply)
post date: 09.05.05 (12:30 am)
Reply to: Kupov
Aren't you assuming that because God hasn't yet 'destroyed Satan', therefore He never will?
posted by: Kupov (reply)
post date: 09.05.05 (1:58 am)
Reply to: MaxVel
Satan has cause harm, people are in Hell, i would say he has done his work as god knew he would do.
posted by: sebastianjoshua (reply)
post date: 09.05.05 (9:38 pm)
Did u ever read about Satan in AL-QURAN... muslim religious book... there u can see why GOD create satan
posted by: Kupov (reply)
post date: 09.05.05 (10:18 pm)
Reply to: sebastianjoshua
I know what the Quran is but i have never read it, this is also a question that only really applies to Christians.
posted by: reducto (reply)
post date: 09.06.05 (12:35 pm)
You are obviously not familiar-at all-with Christian theology. God is going to Satan, and all evil, and that will be at the end of time. The only reason why he hasn't so far is out of love for the fallen angels (Saten, etc.)-- he is still giving them time to repent (and us, too).
But God isn't morally obligated to do anything. "Morally obligated" is a phrase we use to indicate our detachment from a moral issue. God can be nothing but morally obligated-- he is love itself, and perfectly just.
posted by: Kupov (reply)
post date: 09.07.05 (12:26 am)
Reply to: kurtmaddox
I've read... this always makes me wonder what his thought process or strategy is to get around his fate accompli.
Read tieflings Satans rebellion topic i posted here, he addresses it rather well.
posted by: Kupov (reply)
post date: 09.07.05 (12:33 am)
Reply to: reducto
So what? God is a lazy basterd.
"Honey Get the Dog, hes rabid and hes biting people and they are suffering eternal torment"
"at the end of time, geez"
Satan has done his work people are in Hell people have suffered and God has sat there and done nothing.
posted by: babe4Jesus55 (reply)
post date: 09.07.05 (4:37 am)
Satan... he's not so cool. My philosophy on why Satan exists would have to deal with free will. God created humans to be His companions, His friends. He then turned around and made Satan to give humans a choice over who's friend they'll be-God's or Satan's. God gave us the choice, and free will over our fate because He didn't want robot friends that had no other choise but to hang out with Him. Let's face it; the friend that is paid, or coerced into hanging out with you is no real friend at all. God only wants real friends.
That's my very short sighted, humanistic version. Perfect? No, but we must remember we're trying to understand a being that created our minds to not comprehend all things so we'd trust Him in all things instead.
ok, really, I'm off my soap box now.
posted by: graceshaker (reply)
post date: 09.07.05 (7:07 am)
ever seen willy wonka and the chocolate factory? satan is slugworth. its really that simple. dont believe all the hype.
posted by: CrazyBeautiful3 (reply)
post date: 09.07.05 (8:42 am)
you can not have good without bad. um..and notbeing mean but maybe you should reread the bible again. it says why we have satan. there is a story in there about it. how can you have good without heartach and pain? it's a balance.
posted by: graceshaker (reply)
post date: 09.07.05 (8:58 am)
Reply to: CrazyBeautiful3
where is that story in the bible about why we have satan. im anxious to read it.
posted by: CrazyBeautiful3 (reply)
post date: 09.07.05 (9:00 am)
Reply to: graceshaker
i'm not sure, i just know it's in there from sunday school. i'll look to see if i find it in there for you though and let you know ok.
posted by: Isaac (reply)
post date: 09.07.05 (9:09 am)
Satan hasn't been destroyed yet, but he will be destroyed, and it describes everything that happens to satan and the angels that rebelled with him in Revelations Chapter 19, Verse 20, Chapter 20, Verses 10-15...
It wasn't to create drama. It wasn't for an interesting story. NOR was it for good versus bad, because righteousness is eternal and there's no evil where the Lord sits.
It was to redeem His children, that all of them should come to repentance and be saved. It is out of love.
No competition. The definition of love (God is love) in First Corinthians Chapter 13, Verse 4 rules out competition.
All you need to do is Ask Him! That's all! It simple: no need to make up philosophies on why Satan might exist, or to come up with such theories, because the Lord has and is already willing to tell exactly why and exactly what and will happen. If you don't know, you haven't ask.
Christ taught, Ask and you shall receive. Seek and you will find, knock and the door shall be opened to you.
posted by: Isaac (reply)
post date: 09.07.05 (9:10 am)
P.S. It's in Ezekiel Cahpter 28, Isaiah Chapter 14... And you wont understand a WORD until you understand what Christ said in Matthew Chapter 13. Particularly the parable of the wheat and tare starting around Verse 24.
posted by: Isaac (reply)
post date: 09.07.05 (9:13 am)
Reply to: CrazyBeautiful3
I'm grateful for what you said. But the last part: You have to have a balance, not only is that an unbiblical doctrine, but it's a great deception. After this age of earth and after what happens in the Revelations, there will be no more evil. The balance thing is unsoundly unnecessary because righteousness is eternal without evil's corruption.
posted by: CrazyBeautiful3 (reply)
post date: 09.07.05 (9:18 am)
Reply to: Isaac
you can not have a world without evil. people are not always gonna get along, everyone has good and bad in them. some just show the bad more and others show the good. it is a balance, yo can not have good with out bad.
posted by: graceshaker (reply)
post date: 09.07.05 (9:27 am)
Reply to: CrazyBeautiful3
good luck. i look forward to hearing back from you. Ü
posted by: Isaac (reply)
post date: 09.07.05 (9:29 am)
Reply to: kurtmaddox
Jesus Christ isn't the master of the dark hearts of fallen creation at all. Someone that comes to Him is wiped clean, and there's no more darkness within them.
Satan has always been in scripture. Isaiah, the same book that talks about Jesus's life 700 years before He was born, talks vividly about satan, using his angelic name even, in Isaiah Chapter 14. It talks about satan more in the bible's oldest book, Job. It goes into detail to describe that satan is the clear, obtrusive enemy of God. The fact that satan is in the books of the Law of Moses, like Genesis, clearly and definitively points out that the Israelites their ancestors out of Egypt have known about and have despised God's enemy as their own enemy for thousands of years.
If you'll remember Matthew Chapter 4 where satan tempts Jesus, satan used scripture to try to tempt Him to jump from the high hill. Satan does in fact know the bible better than mostly everyone here, but what satan doesn't have is the Holy Spirit. The power to give life he doesn't have, and death is only in him. Satan has had the same game-plan for a very long time now.
And the fact that you don't know it very well is evident to me of your lack of understanding of what the Holy Spirit's authored, which is one of the reasons why satan doesn't understand - Revelations is spiritually discerned, written in a spiritual language that only the elect are given translation.
Satan is tempting the nations and awaiting a number. It's like a clock. It's called "the fullness of the Gentiles." Satan's strategy, in a nut-shell has been to destroy the Lord's remnant. Always attempting to wipe out the Lord's promises - destroying the line of David, destroying and corrupting Israel with false gods and information, and finally trying to fail God's salvation plan by crucifying Jesus Christ Himself. Which is why Jesus called those that accused Him the children of satan, who did satan's will. Who are literally spiritual sons of satan. And unless you understand Cain and Abel that wont make much sense to you. The red actually comes from the red fur that Esau was born with. That alludes to Cain and Abel because they two and Jacob and Esau were twins, and one was always from Adam, and one from satan, spiritually.
posted by: Isaac (reply)
post date: 09.07.05 (9:30 am)
Reply to: CrazyBeautiful3
Say this same doctrine to Jesus Christ, who said, "My kingdom is not of this world." Who layed up a place in His kingdom for those out of the world that follow Him, where there exists no such evil. Nothing bad.
posted by: Isaac (reply)
post date: 09.07.05 (9:32 am)
Reply to: babe4Jesus55
If He didn't want us to know Him, why do you think He come down Himself personally and teach and heal and die for our sins so that we might be reborn to an eternal inheritance and kingdom?
posted by: Isaac (reply)
post date: 09.07.05 (9:34 am)
Reply to: Kupov
There's no one in hell. Because the lake of fire hasn't been created yet. It will be created, and its creation is mentioned in Revelations Chapters 19 and 20. Hell is a grave for the dead. Christ claimed that He is life itself. The end result of rejecting life is death.
posted by: CrazyBeautiful3 (reply)
post date: 09.07.05 (9:37 am)
Reply to: Isaac
what religon are you? just wondering?
posted by: MrsUsed2B (reply)
post date: 09.07.05 (9:37 am)
Wow, you bring up some good points.
I would have to agree.
:-)
posted by: graceshaker (reply)
post date: 09.07.05 (9:38 am)
Reply to: Isaac
in dealing with satans creation and purpose saying "It was to redeem His children," is retrofitting bc had there been no satan there would be no need for redemption eh?
isaiah 14 and ezekiel 28 are not about satan they are both about men - rulers of provinces at that time - and both say so clearly.
isaiah 14:4 - that you will take up this taunt against the king of Babylon, and say, "How the oppressor has ceased, And how fury has ceased!
isaiah 14:16 - Those who see you will gaze at you, They will ponder over you, saying, 'Is this the MAN who made the earth tremble, Who shook kingdoms,
ezekiel 28:2 - 2 "Son of man, say to the leader of Tyre, 'Thus says the Lord GOD, "Because your heart is lifted up And you have said, ' I am a god, I sit in the seat of gods In the heart of the seas'; Yet you are a MAN and not God, Although you make your heart like the heart of God--
ezekiel 28:9 - 'Will you still say, "I am a god," In the presence of your slayer, Though you are a MAN and not God, In the hands of those who wound you?
as for the idea of balance you are correct. it is not scriptural. there was no evil before creation and there will again be no evil when God destroys it. balance is a eastern philosophical idea - not a biblical one.
posted by: AmyLeeZealot (reply)
post date: 09.07.05 (12:01 pm)
Haha. Good point. I think the whole religion thing is screwed up either way
posted by: Kupov (reply)
post date: 09.07.05 (1:48 pm)
Reply to: CrazyBeautiful3
Thats not true, God can (according to Christians) make the world all perfect with the snap of his fingers.
posted by: Emily (reply)
post date: 09.07.05 (2:27 pm)
Maxvel's correct. If you actually knew anything about the Bible you'd realize in Revelations God does indeed destroy Satan.
posted by: babe4Jesus55 (reply)
post date: 09.07.05 (3:00 pm)
Reply to: Isaac
sorry. i don't think i understand what you're saying. 0:-) i said God does want to know us, but does not want to force us to know or love Him, because bought friends are no friends at all... or really crummy ones.
posted by: graceshaker (reply)
post date: 09.07.05 (4:47 pm)
Reply to: kurtmaddox
i blame the dispensationalists. they are always retrofitting stuff that shouldnt be retrofitted. its clear from the Talmud that those passages were understood to be about exactly who they are addressed to - the rulers of babylon and tyre respectively - mere men who thought themselves higher than they ought.
posted by: graceshaker (reply)
post date: 09.07.05 (4:50 pm)
Reply to: Kupov
K: God can (according to Christians) make the world all perfect with the snap of his fingers.
gs: have a care when you make such sweeping statements. not all xians see it so casually. i for one think there is as great a meaning in the journey as there is in the destination.
posted by: graceshaker (reply)
post date: 09.07.05 (4:51 pm)
Reply to: Emily
its even possible that hes already been overcome and that the evil we see now is perpetuated by us and not him.
posted by: graceshaker (reply)
post date: 09.07.05 (4:59 pm)
Reply to: kurtmaddox
kurt: Get thee behind me, Slugworth! :-)
gs: has a ring to it doesnt it? Ü
posted by: Kupov (reply)
post date: 09.08.05 (8:28 am)
Reply to: graceshaker
Then you would be wrong, unless God is not omnipotent he can do it in a millisecond and he can bring everyone back from hell and destroy Satan in that very same millisecond.
posted by: Kupov (reply)
post date: 09.08.05 (8:29 am)
If I had theree wishes i would end world hunger and such and such, this must make me more moral then God.
posted by: graceshaker (reply)
post date: 09.08.05 (7:55 pm)
Reply to: Kupov
fire can sustain life or destroy it. to do away with fire is to do away with its warmth as well as its destructiveness.
what will you wish for fire?
posted by: Kupov (reply)
post date: 09.08.05 (9:20 pm)
Reply to: graceshaker
Wrong comparison, hunger sustains nothing
posted by: graceshaker (reply)
post date: 09.08.05 (10:19 pm)
Reply to: Kupov
further adventures in missing the point entirely...
posted by: Kupov (reply)
post date: 09.08.05 (10:41 pm)
Reply to: graceshaker
lol ok then s-p-e-l-l it out to me
posted by: MissJane (reply)
post date: 09.13.05 (3:33 am)
for someone who doesnt believe in god or christianity, you sure can't stop talking about it.
posted by: graceshaker (reply)
post date: 09.13.05 (4:47 am)
Reply to: MissJane
odd isnt it? spending so much time talking about something you DONT believe in...
posted by: DayTripper7 (reply)
post date: 09.13.05 (11:07 am)
Nice new layout Kup... I'm impressed.
I'm also impressed with KurtMaddox's comments. I truely believe that he should write a book. He's been sucessful with the tBLOG community, who's to say America/Canada.. etc will not enjoy?
Latro.
posted by: Kupov (reply)
post date: 09.13.05 (1:38 pm)
Reply to: MissJane
Christians who do not like Harry Potter spend a lot of time trying to get the book banned, Christians who do not like Gays spend a lot of time trying to ban the Gay pride parade.
Reply to daytripper7: the tblog community is impressed with any crap you pull out of your ass except mine hahaha but kurt is smart i bet he could do it, he DID appear on oprah.
posted by: Kupov (reply)
post date: 09.13.05 (11:39 pm)
I have deleted all the positive site layout comments and pasted them into my guestbook.
posted by: MissJane (reply)
post date: 09.15.05 (3:56 am)
Reply to: Kupov
but i thought you hated christians? why are you trying to act like them?
posted by: CrazyBeautiful3 (reply)
post date: 09.15.05 (12:45 pm)
I'm so over this.
posted by: Kupov (reply)
post date: 09.15.05 (2:05 pm)
Reply to: MissJane
I do not hate Christians, I hate their ideas and points of view.
I hate Christianity but i do NOT hate christians.
Because Christians will never accept and arguemnt from science, they just throw it away, it is harder to throw away blatant scripture from THEIR own holy book.
posted by: Kupov (reply)
post date: 09.15.05 (2:06 pm)
Reply to: CrazyBeautiful3
Over what?
posted by: Kupov (reply)
post date: 09.16.05 (2:33 pm)
Berlin Bear, I have deketed your comment for the following reasons.
1.it had nothing to do with why god does not destroy Satan
2.Noone can read it
3.if you want to talk tmail me :)
posted by: Kupov (reply)
post date: 09.17.05 (12:09 pm)
Reply to: BerlinBear
No point was proven once you tmail me i will answer and please STAY ON TOPIC, about your posts i will continue to delete them untill they are About why God does not destroy Satan, theres too much crap comments that dont relate to anything im getting rid of them, people who said nice things will be put into my guestbook people who simply insulted (unless it relates to the topic) their comments will be deleted.
I will not ban you unless you spam
posted by: BerlinBear (reply)
post date: 09.17.05 (9:47 pm)
Reply to: Kupov
Well then in that case I'd suggest it's time to check your tmail Kupov.
posted by: newbie (reply)
post date: 09.22.05 (8:20 pm)
Or perhaps God is waiting for the right time. In fact, that is what it says in the bible. You should really read it sometime.
posted by: Radical (reply)
post date: 10.14.05 (3:23 am)
hey im jewish and i dont give a french braid
posted by: Kupov (reply)
post date: 11.26.05 (10:54 pm)
Reply to: graceshaker
Who says?
Quote, marilyn manson" I see wonka as a metaphor for Stan, he gives people the choice between good and evil and all of them choose evil"
posted by: Kupov (reply)
post date: 12.12.05 (11:29 pm)
Reply to: CrazyBeautiful3
Im glad you think so, why dont you fly down to Iraq and tell the suffering people there how their balancing out so the U,S gets allll of the good, im sure theyll be quite pleased.
posted by: Lenon (reply)
post date: 04.30.06 (6:39 am)
Oh no youve got it all wrong before the that time God did not need too see the future because we where built into his image.then it was us that brought the (natrual) sin for even the angels sin because god did not make them as powerful and holy as him . try to comment back.
posted by: Sortofobvious (reply)
post date: 07.09.06 (4:16 pm)
Hey, i believe in god but it sort of obvious the bible most likely is not 100% correct after all it has so many flaws. It was made by humans period. The bible makes god sound like a monster sending people to hell who dont believe in a man named Jesus. Afterall nobody even knows for fact that jesus even existed or even was the so called "sonofgod". People dont realize the concept of hell. NO BODY SHOULD DESERVE HELL NO MATTER HOW BAD U ARE! PEOPLE DONT REALIZE THAT HELL IS THE END OF YOU. THERE IS NO MORE POINT IN LIVING, NO MATTER HOW STRONG U ARE; YOU WILL REMAIN IN A HELLISH ENVIRONMENT FOR THE REST OF ETERNITY. Obviously, i believe god would not send people to a place like that for simply not believing in a man that walks around saying hes god. God is the all merceful and all knowing. Jesus probably wasn't god after all, if u wanted to spread a religon the best way is scare people into it.
posted by: Sortofobvious (reply)
post date: 07.09.06 (4:23 pm)
Reply to: Lenon God sees the future period says in ur christian bible. period.
posted by: aqtr evonsf (reply)
post date: 12.29.06 (2:31 am)
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