Some scripture and a loving God
08.18.05 (5:58 am) [edit]
or at least according to todays standerds or morality, now i realise most of thses are old testament but that does not really matter my question to you is why would a perfect God all of sudden change to fit modern day standerds in morality?
Here are some Bible quotes i hope you ate least find disturbing.
Kill Followers of Other Religions
"If your own full brother, or your son or daughter, or your beloved wife, or you intimate friend, entices you secretly to serve other gods, whom you and your fathers have not known, gods of any other nations, near at hand or far away, from one end of the earth to the other: do not yield to him or listen to him, nor look with pity upon him, to spare or shield him, but kill him. Your hand shall be the first raised to slay him; the rest of the people shall join in with you. You shall stone him to death, because he sought to lead you astray from the Lord, your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, that place of slavery. And all Israel, hearing of this, shall fear and never do such evil as this in your midst." (Deuteronomy 13:7-12 NAB)
Jesus Falsely Predicts the End of the World
"And there will be strange events in the skies – signs in the sun, moon, and stars. And down here on earth the nations will be in turmoil, perplexed by the roaring seas and strange tides. The courage of many people will falter because of the fearful fate they see coming upon the earth, because the stability of the very heavens will be broken up. Then everyone will see the Son of Man arrive on the clouds with power and great glory. So when all these things begin to happen, stand straight and look up, for your salvation is near!"
"Then he gave them this illustration: "Notice the fig tree, or any other tree. When the leaves come out, you know without being told that summer is near. Just so, when you see the events I've described taking place, you can be sure that the Kingdom of God is near. I assure you, this generation will not pass from the scene until all these events have taken place. Heaven and earth will disappear, but my words will remain forever" (Luke 21:25-33 NLT)
Child Beating
"He who spares the rod hates his son, but he who loves him takes care to chastise him" (Proverbs 13:24 NAB)
"Chastise your son, for in this there is hope, but do not desire his death. The man of violent temper pays the penalty; even if you rescue him, you will have to do it again." (Proverbs 19:18-19 NAB)
More Baby Killing
"The glory of Israel will fly away like a bird, for your children will die at birth or perish in the womb or never even be conceived. Even if your children do survive to grow up, I will take them from you. It will be a terrible day when I turn away and leave you alone. I have watched Israel become as beautiful and pleasant as Tyre. But now Israel will bring out her children to be slaughtered." O LORD, what should I request for your people? I will ask for wombs that don't give birth and breasts that give no milk. The LORD says, "All their wickedness began at Gilgal; there I began to hate them. I will drive them from my land because of their evil actions. I will love them no more because all their leaders are rebels. The people of Israel are stricken. Their roots are dried up; they will bear no more fruit. And if they give birth, I will slaughter their beloved children." (Hosea 9:11-16 NLT)
posted by: BareKnuckleBxer (reply)
post date: 08.18.05 (6:02 am)
child beating? ehm no, its called spankings.
and i have just 2 words for you...
OLD!
TESTAMENT!
posted by: fallingintoYou (reply)
post date: 08.18.05 (7:20 am)
God never changes.....it's our experiences that change our perception of who He truly is. man is sinful.....all have sined and fallen short of the glory of God....you've heard it before....no surpirse there. God wears many hats...yes He is loving....but He's also a God of wrath and discipline...a God of faithfullness....a God of forgiveness and mercy....a God of grace. He never changes.... but our experiences help to mold and shape our perceptions of who He is....it doesn't mean that we're always right though.
my question for you is this....has something happened in your own experiences to turn you off to God? i read in one of your replies on your previous blog that your family is full of Christians....so i was wondering....did something happen to shape your personal perception of God? think about it.....did something in your life cause you to mistrust....or cause you to have a lack of belief in the God of many different hats....the one that is never changing? ...the one who loves you no matter how many times you deny His exisistance...or profane His name. just wondering.
posted by: Kupov (reply)
post date: 08.18.05 (2:33 pm)
Reply to: fallingintoYou
So because Humans realise all of that is evil they change God to fit commen day morality? as far as I can tell a perfect God should not change.
posted by: Kupov (reply)
post date: 08.18.05 (2:40 pm)
Reply to: BareKnuckleBxer
What do you have to say about kill followers of another Religion.
And i have 6 words for you
A PERFECT GOD DOES NOT CHANGE
posted by: preceptlady (reply)
post date: 08.18.05 (2:42 pm)
I have said it once and I will say it again...you CANNOT take scripture out of it's CONTEXT!
When you do it is distorted as you have distorted it.
posted by: Kupov (reply)
post date: 08.18.05 (3:29 pm)
Reply to: preceptlady
I do not understand the CONTEXT is clear as it will be, If you think the only context the Bible can be read in is as a great and loving book you are sadly mistaken.
I will however admit you are right if you SHOW me what context it is in, I will however tell you searching will bring you no merit because the context IS clear.
posted by: preceptlady (reply)
post date: 08.18.05 (3:38 pm)
Have you ever picked up a book, read the first page,maybe even the second and then read the last page? You read the beginning and the end and if you have time you may even read a few pages in the middle but you never read the entire book. I am sure you have.
All I am saying is you have to consider the entire counsel of God and the entire book. You just can't take out what you want and rip it apart. That's crazy.
posted by: Kupov (reply)
post date: 08.18.05 (3:39 pm)
Reply to: preceptlady
So if I as a man do many great things that itself should get rid of my killing thousands of children and telling my followers to kill and murder and beat their children?
I say it again you say it is out of context GIVE ME THE CONTEXT
posted by: Zissy (reply)
post date: 08.18.05 (4:15 pm)
you are spouting Bible history as we don't live by the Old Testament just as we don't live by our USA History or Russian History or German History. We have learned from our fore fathers as well as our breathren and it seems like those that aren't Christians only can find fault in the Old Testament. I know that there are things in the Bible that are disturbing and hopefully we have learned from those mistakes and will follow the right paths in life. So instead of pointing the finger outward why not point it at yourself and see what you can change from within???
posted by: Kupov (reply)
post date: 08.18.05 (4:36 pm)
Reply to: kurtmaddox
You may find them obvious as you study scripture, most Christians do not know this and i am pointing it out to them, i am not baiting them as you seem to think if i just wanted to bait them i would only write angry swear posts against jesus, do i do that? NO
posted by: Kupov (reply)
post date: 08.18.05 (4:49 pm)
Reply to: kurtmaddox
Thank you and yes i will admit at times i am arrogant or hostile, it is hard to fight people who are without at least being sure of your self, and my hostility is mainly in affect to theirs.
posted by: Shark99 (reply)
post date: 08.18.05 (6:18 pm)
I believe that God is a loving and kind God to his chosen Elect. The people who have been moved by the Holy Spirit towards his Son Jesus Christ. All this has been predestined since the foundation of the world. Some will be chosen, others will be destined to Hell. God is a kind and loving God because He is ultimate patient with his Elect, knowing full-well that we are all sinners and we all fall short of the glory of God. His mercy and grace is upon us all. We criticize God for not striking down child molesters and criminals, but can you imagine of God's justice was swift and immediate. We would all be struck down immediately for any transgression. No God is patient, and reserves His judgment until the end, when He will bring the Chosen to Him. If we recognize the light and embrace the Holy Spirit there is hope. Yet, it is a continuing struggle, and we do not know if we are the Chosen Elect or not.
posted by: Kupov (reply)
post date: 08.18.05 (6:21 pm)
Reply to: Shark99
Untrue do police officers kill people for minor crimes?
And For all the 5.5 billion people destined to Hell i hope they can appreciate what a loving God he is.
posted by: fallingintoYou (reply)
post date: 08.19.05 (6:02 am)
you misunderstood me....i said that God doesn't change....but how we view Him at times does...like if we've been hurt...or things aren't going our way...nothing is working out right.. we tend to point the finger at God, because it must be His fault...he just must not care about us or something....but the truth is that He does. He hasn't changed! how we view Him has.
posted by: fallingintoYou (reply)
post date: 08.19.05 (6:02 am)
you misunderstood me....i said that God doesn't change....but how we view Him at times does...like if we've been hurt...or things aren't going our way...nothing is working out right.. we tend to point the finger at God, because it must be His fault...he just must not care about us or something....but the truth is that He does. He hasn't changed! how we view Him has.
posted by: AmyLeeZealot (reply)
post date: 08.19.05 (6:05 am)
whoa..good post. Spanking is wrong. It doesn't teach anything but violence. The bible is so fucked up anyway...I don't know how people can take it seriously
posted by: Kupov (reply)
post date: 08.19.05 (3:32 pm)
Reply to: fallingintoYou
No that is also wrong why would everything in the Bible be true except for what you disagree with?
A perfect God will never be anything but loving and intelligent judging by the old testament and Gods system into Heaven he is neither.
posted by: Kupov (reply)
post date: 08.19.05 (3:33 pm)
Reply to: AmyLeeZealot
Thank you, Spanking may teach violence as well as other things namely fear of parents fear of physical contact and fear of other people.
It has also been linked closely to abuse.
posted by: fallingintoYou (reply)
post date: 08.19.05 (4:21 pm)
not true....i believe the whole Bible, even the parts that selected to put all over your page. if you read the entire Bible it is clear that God wears many different hats. like i said...He is just as much a God of wrath as He is a God of love. and as far as being loving and intelligent.....He is both....i mean hey....he created you and me right!? :0) and what system would you say is the system to get you into heaven.....just out of curiosidy....i would like to see if you took any of it out of context just as you have the rest of the scripture for your arguments. by the way....not all Christians believe in pre-destination as that shark guy (no offence) just so you know.
posted by: Kupov (reply)
post date: 08.19.05 (4:57 pm)
Reply to: fallingintoYou
It is easy to give birth as God did but dificult to raise the child, God has proved himself unable to raise human beings properly.
posted by: preceptlady (reply)
post date: 08.19.05 (5:22 pm)
Thank you...fallingintoyou. It's all about context.
posted by: VancouverBound (reply)
post date: 08.19.05 (6:12 pm)
Ezekiel 4:12
And thou shalt eat it as barley cakes, and thou shalt bake it with dung that cometh out of man, in their sight.
Even if there is a proper context, it's still wrong.
posted by: fallingintoYou (reply)
post date: 08.19.05 (7:07 pm)
ha ha ha do you not think that He could strike you dead if He wanted to...or me for that matter? He is fully capable of raising human beings! but we're not puppets....that's not the way that He opperates. Who knows why He chooses to let us experience some trials while shielding us from others....i certainly don't. but to say that He is "uncapable of raising human beings".....well that's just false. He can ....but instead i believe that He allows us to have the freedom to make our own mistakes at times. (notice that i said that that was my belief and not necessarily the belief of every other Christian.)
posted by: MaxVel (reply)
post date: 08.19.05 (7:34 pm)
Hi Kupov!
Have you looked at Millers Christian think-tank site yet?
A couple of thoughts on this post:
The passage about 'other religions' is in the context of the chiuldren of Israel who were specifically 'shaped' by God to be the nation that brought forth the Messiah - Jesus. Thus they were sometimes treated differently, because God had/has a critical role for them. The passage from Deuteronomy is about people who, having also come out of Egypt "..entices you secretly to serve other gods,..". So that person is not simply someone who happens to believe in 'other gods', but someone who has a) rejected God {after seeing the miracles in Egypt, crossing the Red Sea, manna in the desert etc..} and b) tried to 'entice' someone else away from their belief in God. The Israelites are told to execute such a person "..becasue he sought to lead you astray..", and NOT merely because he happened to believe differently.
As regards Jesus' prophecy... it all hinges on what exactly Jesus meant by the word translated as "generation". Have you looked into that? Check out e-sword for a free, good, downloadable bible study tool that has Greek meanings etc.
Your underlying issue seems to be that there is a change between the OT and the NT, and this change implies that God has changed. I think that the way God deals with people has changed...
posted by: Kupov (reply)
post date: 08.19.05 (7:50 pm)
Reply to: MaxVel
The miracles were weak and performed by Moses and the Egyption magicians managed to replicate each one, God abaondoned the Isrealites as well and then asked for complete obediance, something about that is not right.
posted by: Kupov (reply)
post date: 08.19.05 (7:51 pm)
Reply to: MaxVel
But i do not understand why God would begin to treat his people differently if he was allready perfect.
posted by: Kupov (reply)
post date: 08.19.05 (7:51 pm)
Reply to: fallingintoYou
So? I am fully capable of buying a gun and shooting you, but i will be punished as God should be.
posted by: seer (reply)
post date: 08.19.05 (8:07 pm)
Christianity is a false religion, concoted by Constantine, and the ruthless Church, by men who were afraid of the power of women, a religion that breeds violence and hate and intolerance. In other words, a huge lie. :)
posted by: fallingintoYou (reply)
post date: 08.19.05 (8:41 pm)
Reply to: Kupov
so you think that the God of the universe should be punished if He "wrongs us"...hmmmm.....who would be the one to do that? ....just wondering.
posted by: Kupov (reply)
post date: 08.19.05 (9:52 pm)
Reply to: seer
I agree
posted by: Kupov (reply)
post date: 08.19.05 (9:52 pm)
Reply to: fallingintoYou
No one unfortunatly
posted by: VancouverBound (reply)
post date: 08.19.05 (10:26 pm)
Deuteronomy 21:18-21 "If a man have a stubborn and rebellious son, which will not obey the voice of his father, or the voice of his mother, and that, when they have chastened him, will not hearken unto them: Then shall his father and his mother lay hold on him, and bring him out unto the elders of his city, and unto the gate of his place; And they shall say unto the elders of his city, This our son is stubborn and rebellious, he will not obey our voice; he is a glutton, and a drunkard. And all the men of his city shall stone him with stones, that he die: so shalt thou put evil away from among you; and all Israel shall hear, and fear."
That goes beyond mere spanking to communal murder by stoning.
posted by: Kupov (reply)
post date: 08.19.05 (11:40 pm)
Reply to: VancouverBound
Yep thank you for posting that, i tried to find yet could not find the scripture i needed.
posted by: VancouverBound (reply)
post date: 08.20.05 (12:03 am)
Reply to: Kupov
www.skepticsannotatedbible.com
They've done all the legwork.
posted by: MaxVel (reply)
post date: 08.20.05 (10:20 pm)
Reply to: Kupov
Why would God treat people differently at different times? Not becasue God's not perfect, but because people aren't.
Are you going to post more on tHW?
posted by: graceshaker (reply)
post date: 08.21.05 (8:04 pm)
seems to be yet another heated foray going on here with all the usual players. once again im going to sink my teeth into the stuff behind the stuff so to speak.
what is your standard of meausring what is right and what is wrong?
posted by: Kupov (reply)
post date: 08.22.05 (3:16 am)
Reply to: MaxVel
Of course i will post ore on THW i dont abandon things i think i will post the 911 bit on there soon, however People have not changed where do you get this?
posted by: Kupov (reply)
post date: 08.22.05 (3:17 am)
Reply to: graceshaker
Nope maxvel joined
My standerd? well it has to be done in good intentions and end favourably for everyone.
posted by: graceshaker (reply)
post date: 08.22.05 (7:57 am)
Reply to: Kupov
"My standerd? well it has to be done in good intentions and end favourably for everyone."
why is this your standard?
posted by: Kupov (reply)
post date: 08.22.05 (9:10 am)
Reply to: graceshaker
Why would it not be? seems fairly logical to me.
posted by: graceshaker (reply)
post date: 08.22.05 (9:52 am)
Reply to: Kupov
so your standard is based on what seems logical to you. heres the thing - your sense of logic is not universal. what seems logical to you may not seem logical to others.
by this standard you must understand and accept that your sense of morality is not universal - is in fact not necessarily popular - and is even quite possibly morally reprehensible to others.
i hope you understand that im not in any way attacking when i say this.
posted by: MaxVel (reply)
post date: 08.26.05 (10:38 pm)
Reply to: Kupov
Not - 'people have changed' but "people aren't perfect"
Look forward to seeing you on THW