Biblical knowledge is pseudo knowledge
08.16.05 (2:09 pm) [edit]
Now Dilerious has pointed out to me during our arguments that he has a degree in Religion and that he is more learned then me, all that can possible mean when dealing with Christianity is that he undertsand the Bible more.
Think of this I could have a phd in pinkioelephantology and you CAN bring any any argument (outside of your six sences) down by simply saying "your knowledge means nothing to me I do not believe in pinkioelephants"
This is the same thing with Christianity if you KNOW Jesus is you're saviour and messiah and other people DON'T know that is not because of ignorance on their part it is a lack of belief, this lack of belief may come from all the Bibles contradictions and faults, some people are unwilling to believe in the Bible because they are unwilling to believe any book of religion that was written so long ago.
Christians i am perfectly sure Christianity seems very logical to you but you're arguments must change and you must argue from a different point of view, simply telling us we will learn when we die convinces noone and i say it again.
You do not know in fact you have no idea and that is a fact if you think you know you must learn that it is simply pseudo knowledge.
posted by: Kupov (reply)
post date: 08.16.05 (2:14 pm)
I do not want any Christians to come and say they know it in their hearts or any such nonsense, debate if you will but keep pseudo knowledge out.
posted by: xpiratex (reply)
post date: 08.16.05 (2:15 pm)
ok well....i promised myself i wouldnt argue with u about this....so uhh yeah...heres ur first comment...return the luv pls.....God bless
posted by: hippielunatic (reply)
post date: 08.16.05 (2:15 pm)
Biblical knowledge is not pseudo knowledge. The Bible exists. To know about the bible is to have a concrete knowledge. Your arguements about the bible, are, in my opinion short sighted. I believe you read to find fault, rather than read to gain insight or understanding.
As I read your blog, I have a hard time readin in a way other than the way I believe you read the bible. I read to find faults in your blog... and since I have an English degree and English is your second language, I can find many faults of that kind.
I believe that you want to cause people to think... but I think you would accomplish more if you didn't imply that Christians are stupid for holding on to their beliefs.
posted by: Kupov (reply)
post date: 08.16.05 (2:18 pm)
Reply to: hippielunatic
To know of the bible is concrete to believe in the bible is mear pseudo knowledge.
posted by: Kupov (reply)
post date: 08.16.05 (2:19 pm)
Reply to: xpiratex
Heres my deal pirate everytime you say God bless i say Let Jesus fuck you
so.....Let Jesus Fuck you
posted by: Boomersangel (reply)
post date: 08.16.05 (2:45 pm)
I do not have a argument or a real comment to add to this but I wanted you to know that I am reading your blog, so I am leaving you my comment!! Have a good one!!
posted by: Kupov (reply)
post date: 08.16.05 (2:47 pm)
Reply to: Boomersangel
Thank you I will
posted by: hippielunatic (reply)
post date: 08.16.05 (3:10 pm)
To have knowledge is to have an aquaintance with principles. To believe is to have confidence in the truth, the existence, or the reliability of something, although without absolute proof that one is right in doing so.
To believe ANYTHING is mere "pseudo knowledge" as you call it. If you have never fallen, and yet you insist that gravity is truth, that is "pseudo." If you insist that the earth revolves around the sun, rather than vice versa, but you have never been in space, that is "pseudo." All knowledge is "pseudo" by your reasoning unless you have personally experienced EVERYTHING...
posted by: xpiratex (reply)
post date: 08.16.05 (3:20 pm)
first off...God bless...that felt good, im supposed 2 love my enemies..in that case i love you....go ahead tell me "let jesus f,uck u"i still love ya
posted by: dilerious (reply)
post date: 08.16.05 (3:26 pm)
dude, you have my words wrong.
and i dont see a point in arguing with you about anything, weather i know more or not, so dont bring me into your ramblings.
and who comments defensively on their post before any one else comments? what is that?
posted by: hippielunatic (reply)
post date: 08.16.05 (3:34 pm)
Reply to: dilerious
And this is why I like dilerious.
posted by: Kupov (reply)
post date: 08.16.05 (3:36 pm)
Reply to: hippielunatic
No wrong anything you cannot feel with your six sences is pseudo knowledge, yes it is true if you have never fallen gravity to you is pseudo knowledge, whats your point?
posted by: hippielunatic (reply)
post date: 08.16.05 (3:43 pm)
Reply to: Kupov
Six senses? If you believe in a sixth sense, that's pseudo, too.
My point is that I am sure you have what you would consider knowledge, that based on your definitions is merely pseudo. There is no way to have experienced everything. Everyone has some things have to be taken as fact without hard and fast proof.
For some people, religion and the existence of a God figure is an example. For you, the non-existence of a God figure is something that you cannot prove... therefore it is pseudo.
posted by: Kupov (reply)
post date: 08.16.05 (5:35 pm)
Reply to: kurtmaddox
Very nice Kurt that was a very detailed and well thought out comment moreso even then my original blog well done.
posted by: Kupov (reply)
post date: 08.16.05 (5:37 pm)
Reply to: xpiratex
I love you too but unfortunatly i am going to have to tell you to
Let Jesus fuck you
posted by: Kupov (reply)
post date: 08.16.05 (5:38 pm)
Reply to: dilerious
There were no ramblings and i posted that disclaimer so there would be no idiots ranting about how they KNOW it is the truth when in reality they simply presume.
posted by: PastorDave (reply)
post date: 08.16.05 (5:55 pm)
I am having a hard time conversing with you, as between two rational and intelligent persons, when you speak so profanely about the one I consider to be my Lord, Savior, & God. I don't ask you to agree with me. But you ought to respect a Christian enough not to profane his God. I'm not sure if xpiratex insulted you in some way, but I will bet alot of earnest Christ-followers like myself do not want their Lord slandered.
I like to dialogue with you, but I will not continue to read your posts if your keep speaking in such a vulgar way about Jesus.
I'd like to know if you care.
posted by: VancouverBound (reply)
post date: 08.16.05 (6:11 pm)
http://www.jesusneverexisted.com
I'm not joining any group whose mascot is a *dead guy on a stick*.
posted by: Kupov (reply)
post date: 08.16.05 (6:45 pm)
Reply to: PastorDave
Indeed i do and i am saddened that you feel this way i will stop when people agree to stop telling me they will pray for me or saying God bless, this is offensive and not needed.
posted by: dilerious (reply)
post date: 08.16.05 (6:46 pm)
Reply to: Kupov
by the way, i HAVE to point out that i have never bothered to argue with this kid, although i realize the irony in that by posting this comment, i suppose technically arguing, but o well. i have now lost interest
posted by: Kupov (reply)
post date: 08.16.05 (6:47 pm)
Reply to: kurtmaddox
Look kurt my insulting was simply in response to her saying God Bless i realise this may be in good intentions but i had continuously told her i did not want to hear it, this is the equivalence of a pagan going to a Christians blog and saying may the goddes bless you.
posted by: Kupov (reply)
post date: 08.16.05 (7:54 pm)
Reply to: dilerious
No you have not dilerious you prefer to simply insult me.
posted by: Kupov (reply)
post date: 08.16.05 (10:15 pm)
Reply to: kurtmaddox
Daytripper was right you are very wise :)
posted by: newbie (reply)
post date: 08.17.05 (1:46 am)
You should masturbate more often and bother people less. You little wanker.
posted by: PastorDave (reply)
post date: 08.17.05 (1:53 am)
I would want you guys to understand that Jesus can never be just a dispassionate subject for me. This morning, as I awakened, I spent time in prayer with Him. Later today I will read from a book I believe to be inspired of Him. As I go about my day, I sincerely believe He will be a constant companion and friend, a source of inspiration and guidance. I will seek today to please Him with my approach to life. Many times this day I will try to influence others to at least consider this One who is the most important person in my life. He is my friend and Lord.
I sincerely enjoy the exchange of thought with all kinds of believers and unbelievers. But as a Christian, I love Jesus Christ. When you profane Him, repeatedly and with foresight and with intent to inflame those who follow Him, then our conversation goes beyond debate. It's not just me who has been insulted.
If I meet you on the street and you take this approach, I would try to talk for a bit, but after awhile I'd walk away.
Who is a person in your life that you truly love; someone for whom you have the greatest of respect? Would it not offend you if I insulted this person? You may allow me to speak critically of this person, point out faults, and we could debate the validity of his/her statements and actions. But if you love this individual, you would not want me to abuse him/her.
I'm thinking I really do not need to defend Jesus. Since I believe He is God, He can take care of Himself. Your vulgarity toward Him probably does not offend Jesus, but only saddens.
By way of contrast, consider the comment by Vancouverbound. A bit provocative, and challenging, and inviting you and I to respond. He/she has stimulated me toward debate. And I will post a response later. But to say f* Jesus inflames and denigrates and unnecesarily hurts. It says you have no respect, not only for my faith, but for me as a sincere follower of Jesus.
Sorry for the long post. I know you are passionate teenager, and I have three such teens myself. I suspect you haven't given a whole lot of consideration to some of these statements you throw out, and that's o.k. within blogging.
posted by: Kupov (reply)
post date: 08.17.05 (2:13 am)
Reply to: PastorDave
Very nice post i do apologize however my statement still stands if i have your lord thrown at me i will throw him back, i do not want God to bless me, I do not want you to pray for me. I hope i make myself very clear.
posted by: Zissy (reply)
post date: 08.17.05 (2:18 am)
I came and read and now I'm outta here. Have a good day.
Hugs, Zissy
posted by: Kupov (reply)
post date: 08.17.05 (2:25 am)
Reply to: Zissy
I am not sure if you mean i offended you or you just came and read. please explain
posted by: PastorDave (reply)
post date: 08.17.05 (4:27 am)
Reply to: Kupov
Do you have members of your family, or perhaps a close friend, who take seriously the Christian faith? If so, are you guys able to discuss spiritual/religious issues without namecalling? I imagine you can, because you are respectful of one another.
posted by: hippielunatic (reply)
post date: 08.17.05 (6:04 am)
Reply to: kurtmaddox
You misread or misinterpreted my comment. Biblical’s first definition is “1. of or in the Bible.” Biblical knowledge is knowledge OF the Bible. In a previous comment, I said, to know about the bible is to have a concrete knowledge. I never said that the bible PROVIDED concrete knowledge. Knowledge OF the Bible is concrete, in that the Bible does exist and to know what it says is to have a knowledge. As Kupov said, to believe the Bible is another matter….but my point is that belief in just about anything falls in this same category, and therefore his point is moot.
You tear into my gravity example… yes, we understand gravity now. We didn’t before Newton. (Yes, it could be seen, but we didn’t understand why.) For years, people thought the earth was flat, and then people traveled via boat. We thought the sun revolved around the Earth. Now, if you believe scientists or have traveled into space, you know differently. Examination is what leads to understanding. I don’t believe that reading the Bible to find fault is true examination. In looking for fault, it can be found.
I personally don’t view the Bible as the ultimate in God’s word. The Bible was written by man, edited by man, published by man, and sold by man, and I believe God gives man free will. The Bible is a starting point (as are other spiritual works) but it is by no means the ending point. I believe that there is one Godly entity, with different faces in order to reach the masses…finding a starting point that works for you and working toward an ending point given all that you have learned is all that I think is necessary to get to heaven.
“Which one YOU believe has much more to do with your parents and your culture than it does with your ability to discover THE truth.” ~ kurtmaddox
Yes, that’s true… but the truth is out there, and I don’t believe that attempts to dismiss works that other people have found comfort in is the way to get to that truth.
“There is no need to convince you of that our concept of gravity is pretty darn close to how it really works.” ~kurtmaddox
I would argue with this sentence. How do I know that it isn’t the pressure of all the space around us pushing DOWN on me that keeps me from flying? How do I really know that it is Earth’s mass that pulls me toward it? To be honest, I don’t know for sure… but I BELIEVE that there are intelligent people out there who have studied and exhausted the research necessary to make this claim. I trust them.
posted by: graceshaker (reply)
post date: 08.17.05 (12:55 pm)
so many thoughts..
if your premise is true then all knowledge outside of the 5 senses is pseudo knowledge. the 5 senses are taste touch smell sight & sound. there are many things that both you and i believe in that exist outside of the 5 senses such as love. it cant be tasted or touched or smelled or seen or heard. yet we still believe in it bc we know that the natural material world is not all that exists. there is a world of concepts and ideas - just as real as the material world. we accept as truth that love exists yet it does so outside of the sensory world.
now about xianity i have 2 comments to make. 1st - xianity is a religion like any other religion. it has precepts and tenets. anyone who comes here and tells you that xianity will save you is misled. religion cant save anyone.
2nd - when we step beyond religions and begin talking about faith (and i mean faith in anything - not just Christ) then we are talking about things that are beyond the pale of logic. faith is not logical. if faith were a matter of logic then the idea that someone could be smart or stupid based on their receptiveness to Christ would make perfect sense - at least from a xian perspective - and i think its clear that many xians operate with exactly this kind of approach to the whole issue. but they are going about it all wrong. faith in Christ is illogical bc of the extraordinary claims he made as to who he was and what he could do. he said his death on the cross provided a way for all men to be reconciled to God and that his resurrection would guarantee eternal life for all who followed him – thats just not logical. so it is a matter of faith and for someone who dismisses faith as a means of determining truth then it makes perfect sense to reject Christ as you have done.
indeed - if logic were the only means of determining truth then the matter of faith in Christ would be a foregone conclusion for anyone – its not logical so it is rejected. but logic is not the only means of determining truth. the idea that logic is the only means to truth is an assumption about the way we know things. it is an assumption i do not share bc i accept that faith is a viable means of determining truth as well. for me then the question is who/what is worthy of faith? is religion worthy of my faith? as i expressed above it is not. religion is a matter of rituals practiced to impress God. as i have stated on numerous occasions i do not believe we can impress God with our works. so in eliminating the ‘what’ i am left to deal with the ‘who’. is muhammad worthy of faith? is buddha? the reason i reject these and follow Christ is the same reason i reject works and hold to the idea of grace.
in all my studies and experience i find that the basic concepts the world revolves around are works and grace. these take shape in different ways such as wrath & mercy or revenge & forgiveness. wrath and revenge are based on works. mercy and forgiveness are based on grace. this plays out in everyday life in every situation we can think of.
for example - planes flying into buildings and troops invading baghdad are a matter of wrath and revenge. people strapping bombs to their stomachs and entering buses are a matter of wrath and revenge. these things are based on works and the idea of balance. but grace is different. grace is the man who loses his legs and his daughter in an terrorist explosion and offers forgiveness to those responsible on international tv. grace is the failed abortion growing up to forgive the mother who attempted to end her life. grace is nelson mandela exiting a south african prison with tears in his eyes as he forgives the ones who wrongfully imprisoned him for the crime of being a black man. mercy and forgiveness intermingle in situations like these and show us the power of grace. and it is here that i stake my claim. its true that faith is unlike head-knowledge. but faith is a knowledge all its own. by faith i follow Christ and his unique concept of grace.
i look forward to our continuing dialogue. Ü
posted by: Kupov (reply)
post date: 08.17.05 (6:35 pm)
Reply to: PastorDave
My entire family is Christian
posted by: Kupov (reply)
post date: 08.17.05 (6:38 pm)
Reply to: graceshaker
Now when i say believing in anything beyond the five sences I am wrong, anything that can be experementedly varified is not pseudo knowledge and anything that cannot is.
posted by: RedTigress (reply)
post date: 08.17.05 (6:39 pm)
Well, while I think it's not nice to be condesending to you by saying you know nothing, I also think that a degree in religion is a valid area of expertise.
I would hope that what he may have been trying to say was he got an education in this feild and perhaps you should consider what he has to say.
A degree in religion not only means that you've studied religious works, it also means that you are up to task on the logic behind the literary genious of the peice of work that is the Bible. Basically, you not only know WHAT it says, but you also are in tune with what it's supposed to MEAN. (caps inserted because I couldn't insert italics. I'm not "shouting")
posted by: Kupov (reply)
post date: 08.17.05 (6:49 pm)
Reply to: RedTigress
To tell you the truth i doubt dilerious even has such a degree, he has never responded to anything i say in any other way then
"another stupid post by kupov" I aske him to explain to me how he means this but am given nothing other then
"you are too young/stupid to understand'
posted by: RedTigress (reply)
post date: 08.17.05 (6:54 pm)
Reply to: kurtmaddox
“Which one YOU believe has much more to do with your parents and your culture than it does with your ability to discover THE truth.”
I'm afraid I'm going to have to disagree there. Lots of people convert to different religions after they search for the truth. Many times their search results in something incredibly far from what their culture or their parents originally awarded them in childhood.
In short, I think that rearing environment has little to do with the thinking person's quest for truth and peace between themself and an entity (or lack there of).
posted by: graceshaker (reply)
post date: 08.17.05 (7:54 pm)
Reply to: Kupov
so knowledge of love is pseudo-knowledge?
posted by: Kupov (reply)
post date: 08.17.05 (8:22 pm)
Reply to: graceshaker
Yes or so i believe unless love can be scientifically verified.
posted by: fallingintoYou (reply)
post date: 08.17.05 (8:28 pm)
"what if you're right? and He was just another nice guy. What if you're right? what if it's true? they say the cross will only make a fool of you. and what if it's true? what if he takes his place in history with all the prophets and the kings who taught us love and came in peace...but then the story ends. what then?
but what if you're wrong? what if there's more? what if there's hope you never dreamed of hoping for? what if you jump? and just close your eyes? what if the arms that catch you, catch you by surprise? what if he's more than enough? what if it's love?
what if you dig way down deeper than your simple-minded friends? what if you dig? what if you find a thousand more unanswered questions down inside...that's all you find? what if you pick apart logic and begin to poke the holes....what if the crown of thorns is no more than forklore that must be told..and retold?
but what if you're wrong? what if there's more? what if there's hope you never dreamed of hoping for? what if you jump? and just close your eyes? what if the arms that catch you, catch you by surprise? what if he's more than enough? what if it's love?
you've been running as fast as you can....you've been looking for a place you can land for so long.....but what if you're wrong?" ~ Nicole Nordeman
posted by: Isaac (reply)
post date: 08.18.05 (2:21 am)
Show me any contradiction. Any fault. There are none.
And I don't follow Christ because He's logical to me. I follow Him because of His great love for me. And the point of me being here isn't to win an argument. It's to sow seeds. Any glory in arguments would be in vain. Jesus Christ doesn't need to argue, He's the Son of God, He's already won all things brought against Him.
He allows you to say such things because of the judgement. If you don't believe, it's because you're unworthy of worshipping the Father. Because He chose who should go after Him from the beginning.
posted by: Kupov (reply)
post date: 08.18.05 (3:32 am)
Reply to: Isaac
There is much contradiction and the fault of God lies in his inability to prove himself benevolent untill now, I ask you why would a perfect God change his personality from a rampaging phyco to a gracefull lord.
posted by: Kupov (reply)
post date: 08.18.05 (3:40 am)
Reply to: DeathByGlitter
I do it too anny you :)
posted by: childish (reply)
post date: 08.18.05 (4:03 am)
i see you deleted my comment. how very enlightened of you. I guess when someone says something you can't argue with, you just delete. Hope that works out for you.
posted by: Kupov (reply)
post date: 08.18.05 (4:14 am)
Reply to: childish
You did not argue childish it was just an insult, I have deleted miss Janes post and blocked her because she does not contribute.
posted by: Kupov (reply)
post date: 08.18.05 (4:46 am)
Reply to: userfriendly
I usually play a big role in the debate, but Kurtmaddox has said it ALL literall.
posted by: Kupov (reply)
post date: 08.18.05 (4:49 am)
For example take the terrorism post, 53 comments 19 of them being mine thats more then 1/4
posted by: graceshaker (reply)
post date: 08.18.05 (5:18 am)
Reply to: Kupov
ok - so - do you believe in love? do you know what love is?
posted by: Kupov (reply)
post date: 08.18.05 (5:19 am)
Reply to: userfriendly
So because i delete comments that are insulting and devalue my blog on the whole i am to blame? no i do not think so,
And what childish insults do you refer to?
User if i came on your blog and told you that you were stupid and ignorant continuosly how long would it be before you banned me or at least deleted some of the worst comments?
posted by: fallingintoYou (reply)
post date: 08.18.05 (6:04 am)
Reply to: Kupov
you said in your post not to argue with you.....and that Christians shouldn't try to force our God on you.....and i agree....."nobdy gets brow beaten or humiliated into a relationship whose very foundation is mercy and grace. when every argument and piece of well defended evidence sounds empty to a hurting heart...it is the love of Jesus that comes in and changes things." maybe one of these days your views will change....you'll run out of arguements and run straight into the arms of Jesus......maybe you won't. if i'm wrong....i lose a little of my time and energy putting so much into this faith and i become dust....which i already am anyway......but if you're wrong, you lose everything.
posted by: fallingintoYou (reply)
post date: 08.18.05 (6:10 am)
Reply to: kurtmaddox
in reply to you.....read what i replied to kupov...... my argument wasn't really an argument at all....and was far from "simple minded" it's actually quite logical.....like i said in my reply to kupov.....i may be wrong.....and if i am all i've done is wasted a little time and spent a little energy on this faith...and i simply turn into the dust that i am anyway.....but if you're wrong you lose everything....in my eyes that's alot to bargain with.
posted by: graceshaker (reply)
post date: 08.18.05 (9:51 am)
Reply to: kurtmaddox
"There are several mutually exclusive options to gaining eternal life."
this is not the case. as i stated in my opening statement on this post - theres only two options essentially. they are works and grace. religion tries to impress God with works. it tries to win his favor by devotion or prayer or tithing or other such actions and exhorts these as the path to eternal life. grace on the other hand has nothing to do with impressing God. it has everything to do with realizing that no amount of work will be enough to outweigh the evil we have done in order to impress him and win his favor - but that he made provision for us to receive his favor thru the perfect work of his son.
this is why i trust in Christ. all the religions of the world teach works-based salvation (even xianity unfortunately). but the real answer - the one that sticks out from all the rest is grace.
so in essence theres not a myriad of possibilities. theres grace and theres works. if its works then whichever God it may be (if at all) will be either pleased or disappointed with my efforts regardless. but if its grace - theres only one way.
as i understand God he is fair and more than willing judge people by their works if they so choose. the problem as i see it is that weve all done some kind of evil (we are only too quick to call these merely mistakes) and in the end good works dont counterbalance bad ones. Paul makes this very argument in romans 2-3 and then answers it with the alternative of grace and faith in romans 4-5:11. this is the human dilemma.
i understand that you (and many others) dismiss scripture such as this bc it doesnt sit well in your stomach. believe me - it doesnt sit well in mine either bc i like to think im a pretty good guy. the trouble is i know of the evil i have done and that no amount of good erases it.
so as for me - im banking on grace.
posted by: Kupov (reply)
post date: 08.18.05 (2:31 pm)
Reply to: fallingintoYou
Yes and your logical belief in God is simply this.
Someone gives you a map, so do another 20 people if you follow the wrong map you go to Hell if you do not you get great rewards simply for GUESSING the right map to follow.
posted by: MaxVel (reply)
post date: 08.19.05 (7:51 pm)
Reply to: Kupov
You've said something like: "All real knowledge is that which can be enpirically verified." IOW, tested through our senses.
Can the above bit of knowledge itself be empirically verified?
posted by: graceshaker (reply)
post date: 08.20.05 (11:29 pm)
Reply to: MaxVel
way to put the axiom on trial maxvel! Ü
posted by: Kupov (reply)
post date: 08.21.05 (10:04 pm)
Reply to: MaxVel
Sorry i did not really understand what you meant
posted by: tweety (reply)
post date: 12.30.05 (4:29 pm)
How much better to start from a fact. Instead of suppositons from everybody, do your research and find the facts, then you can build a plausible argument based upon truth. Fact: The science of genetics has put the final nail in the theory of evolution. Fact: Nothing cannot produce something - where did it all begin? Fact: It is much easier to mock than to seriously research an answer for things you cannot accept. - Tweety.