The God of Christianity is Either Evil or Oppresive

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posted by: VancouverBound (reply)
post date: 07.26.05 (12:57 am)

"Is god willing to prevent evil, but not able? - Then he is not omnipotent.

Is he able, but not willing? - Then he is malevolent.

Is he both able and willing? - Then whence cometh evil?

Is he neither able nor willing? - Then why call him god?"
-- Epicurus (341-270 BCE)

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posted by: Kupov (reply)
post date: 07.26.05 (1:44 am)

I like that, no matter the option Christianity is wrong, however what reply do you make to the scripture I pointed out.

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posted by: gonzoid (reply)
post date: 07.26.05 (2:14 am)

if god is non-existent [point c] then no matter what he saysm we cannot hear as he does not exist. which is good, because if god does not exist then neither does, the devil, jesus, mohammed, and all american politics are fighting a crusade on behalf of an imaginary person. so all theopse people throught history have died in vain over the stupid believe that there is further existence after the body rots.

or something. i always thought god was a DJ.

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posted by: kellydawn78 (reply)
post date: 07.26.05 (2:36 am)

i think everyone has their own opinions and beliefs, i'm not here to judge ANYONE..

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posted by: Kupov (reply)
post date: 07.26.05 (2:59 am)

reply to gonzoid)mohammad existed as a man, but I do not beleive he was a prophet, what exactly is your point?

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posted by: childish (reply)
post date: 07.26.05 (5:15 am)

you aren't very educated, are you?

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posted by: Kupov (reply)
post date: 07.26.05 (5:24 am)

how so childish? what in my post did you not agree with?

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posted by: GoddessOfSouls (reply)
post date: 07.26.05 (5:33 am)

tell me one pagan to another Just what is it about Christians that frighten you so? beneath all religions we are still Human Beings and Subject to there Human Faults

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posted by: Kupov (reply)
post date: 07.26.05 (5:52 am)

I am not a pagan but I will answer you.

Christianity frightens me becasue it has power over man to commit him to do the most horrible akts of evil and believ they are for the good of God, The fact that they worship a God who says things like below mentioned is another factor in my crusade against religion.

All of them must be wiped out, except for the folowing

Paganism
Hinduism
Buddhism

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posted by: Kupov (reply)
post date: 07.26.05 (5:53 am)

And since I know they will eventually all come to be obsolete and in generations Jesus will simply be another apollo God simply Zeus

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posted by: GoddessOfSouls (reply)
post date: 07.26.05 (8:50 am)

Reply to: Kupov
Just what the world needs a NEW RELIGIOUS CRUSADE!! in this battle of yours you become that which you wish to abolish

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posted by: Kupov (reply)
post date: 07.26.05 (10:01 am)

not entirely I am not biased in which religion i slect to be destroyed becasue they do not believe what I believe but becasue they cause harm, the religions i excluded casue much less harm, but my crusade is not to be done by fighting but by brining to light the harsh truths of each religions failures.

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posted by: KlOVR (reply)
post date: 07.26.05 (10:04 am)

Very Interesting. And christianity wants us to believe B we can't live with out god or thats what they preach anyway

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posted by: Kupov (reply)
post date: 07.26.05 (10:31 am)

yes and if you read these quotes from said "ever mercifull lord" you will find his true nature as it is the nature of man, leading us to beleive he is merely fictional.

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posted by: sweetsue (reply)
post date: 07.26.05 (10:46 am)

Freedom of Speech and Freedom of Choice..those are what we are priviledged in this country to have,so Kupov you are free to think and say what you want,the same as I a christian have those same rights.Peace be with you!

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posted by: volatile (reply)
post date: 07.26.05 (10:49 am)

Reply to: Kupov

Yeas, yes. All good and Dandy, whatever. But it's not your choice to make for other people. You can't fucking wipe out a religon.
it's still
NOT
YOUR
CHOICE
TO
MAKE.
I understand your opinions, but like you, stubbornheadded and strongwilled, they believe what they want. And who are you to change that?

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posted by: Kupov (reply)
post date: 07.26.05 (11:00 am)

If they can read they should find enough evidence against there religion here to force them to convert.

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posted by: Kupov (reply)
post date: 07.26.05 (11:00 am)

however we both know they will not.

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posted by: BareKnuckleBxer (reply)
post date: 07.26.05 (11:32 am)

you're wrong.

if God is oppressive then why does he offer everyone a choice to eternal life instead of forcing it on us, we're rebellious, and that started the day we ate from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, we've been trying to live without God for hundreds and hundreds of years and look where it got us, take a look outside and see how curropted the world is now, compared to how it was in the bible, even compared to how it was one hundred years ago, we're going downhill fast, if he wanted, he could cleanse the earth of all evil and take his children now, but he dosen't because he gave everyone a free will,

which brings me to my next point,

that quote was from exodus, the second book of the old testament, the old and new testament are compleeetely different, in the old testament, to save your soul, you'd have to pray a number of times a day, make numerous sacrifices, and follow all the religious laws, and God was not as passive as he is now, if you read the bible old testament, there is many a time when someone commits adultery and acts of this nature, and God is quick to deal out judgement, and rightly so, he saw that these laws were flawed, so he changed them, thats how the new testament came to be, everything's founded on teh ten commandments, and to save yourself, all you have to do is ask Jesus to be your Savior, instead of observing all these religious laws...

that is all i have to say.

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posted by: Hypocracy (reply)
post date: 07.26.05 (11:45 am)

Well, what do youi know? Take 1 example from the Bible, and try and summarize a relgion. That's a nice way of getting things done, ain't it?

Anyways, think of it like this. God said eat of any tree you wish, EXCEPT from the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil. Think about those words. GTood, and evil. This means, that once they ate of it, they would have a conscience. A knowledge of what was good, and what was evil.

He still gave man a choice. Before we go on, we must establish that in Christianity, God does the most loving thing. Now, that being said, we continue.

God says "Don't eat that, it's bad. " He says if it is eaten, you will die. Now, why this? He didn't kill them. They had the perfect relationship with God, but he gave them the choice to eat of it or not. Why didn't he want them to eat of it? It's the most loving thing. You see... Back in those days, God was "walking" in the garden. I don't think that is literal-rather, that's a representation of how close he was to them. It was a relationship like with someone you walk and talk with for hours, a friend. If he loves them, he would not let them eat of the fruit. Why? Then they could commit evil, and by commiting evil, go to Hell.

God isn't oppresive. Why would there be choice if He was oppresive? Why would the tree even be there if He was oppresive?

I'm not even going to get into the "serpent" being "good", because that's not even worth fighting.

No, God didn't harden his heart to commit mass murder. You see, we go back to the most loving thing. Pharoh obviously wasn't young. He had probably lived life, had sex with plenty of women, worshipped other gods, and oppressed Jews for so long. God hardened pharohs heart becuase it was the most loving thing.

Put yourself in that situation: Something keeps going wrong... You keep screwing up. No matter what, it's only going to get worse. Wouldn't you choose for someone to take away the chance of screwing up, rather than to just keep trying and failing?

In school, wouldn't you rather choose for someone to help you, instead of failing your calsses because you aren't getting it?

God hardened Pharohs heart, because Pharoh was so deep, God couldn't change that. So here's what he did. he said, from here on out, I'll harden your heart, so that- Next time you sin, it won't count against you. Pharoh will be accountable up to the time in which he got his heart hardened, but nothing after.

I don't know what you are trying to point out in the last one. What's wrong with being jealous? There is such thing as good jealousy, and there is such thing as good punishment.

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posted by: CelestialSon (reply)
post date: 07.26.05 (11:52 am)

The pathetic part is that you're choosing to ignore facts and inject opinions as facts.

You blather on about how Christians should read this when anyone, not just a Christian would label you as a blowhard. I don't know what you're trying to prove, but you're not as clever as you make yourself out to be

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posted by: PinkieHil (reply)
post date: 07.26.05 (12:16 pm)

reply to:BareKnuckleBxer
THANK YOU. Kupov, if you'd like an extended respose to your lies, please cleck out my blog.

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posted by: Kupov (reply)
post date: 07.26.05 (12:38 pm)

reply to bearboxr) But if god is perfect why would he ever change? and if god was evil back then why the sudden change of heart.

Reply tohypocracy)how the Hell was it the loving thing to do by hardening pharoahs heart so he could kill all the children, what did the children have to do with Pharoah? absoulutly nothing.

and why did he not want them to be able to distinguish between good and evil? the only possible conclusion is because he imself was evil. look up gnosticism it is very interesting.

otherwise very good post hypocracy nice work on an explanation of the blatantly unexplainable

Reply to celestial) what facts have I ignored that he loves people who worship him? no I put that in to show how unfair his rule is.

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posted by: BareKnuckleBxer (reply)
post date: 07.26.05 (12:43 pm)

i just have this to say, God was never evil, just less lenient, it wasn't him that was flawed, it was the laws. hence the new laws, the ten commandments.

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posted by: Kupov (reply)
post date: 07.26.05 (12:47 pm)

never evil? you beleive in morality being a Christian right even though I do beleive it is relevant word, how can you say the murder of every first born child is not evil, it does not matter if the rules were different, for example everything Hitler did was legal and was he evil?

YES please look into the word evil and what you are saying.

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posted by: dirtywords (reply)
post date: 07.26.05 (1:33 pm)

these posts are weird and make no sense really. you say christianity is evil. yet you say all religion needs to be wiped out except for 3. doesn't christianity give people agency? and you're preaching tyranny. i'm not religious, but i must heartily disagree with you. especially cuz you don't site chapters or verses and you don't know what version of what bible you're quoting and you're doing the opposite of what religion (ideally) encourages, you're tearing away instead of "building"

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posted by: gamerchick (reply)
post date: 07.26.05 (1:51 pm)

hmmmm, im believe in evolution. and i dont believe in god. so, am i an atheist or an evolutionist? ive brought this up with friends, and they arent sure what to say.

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posted by: mblog (reply)
post date: 07.26.05 (4:58 pm)

Reply to: BareKnuckleBxer

In the "old testament" you don't need to "save your soul" by praying three times a day. Most of the rules are for Jews, and the understaning in Judaism is and was that you don't have to be Jewish to "save your soul." Not that saving your soul is a real goal, because all that business about hell fire, a literal devil and eternal damnation is a Christian concept anyway. In Judiaism, anybody who follows the Noachide laws is considered as righteous as the most observant Jew.

If all you have to do is ask Jesus to be your savior, then you are disavowing any personal responsibility, and the idea of morality becomes irrelevant. You think that the most righteous person will still go to hell if he does not accept Jesus, but if Hitler asked for forgiveness on his death bed and accepted Jesus and admitted his sins, then he would go to heaven. That's perverse.

The idea that God is perfect, yet he was flawed makes no sense whatsoever. God does not make mistakes if you accept Christianity.

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posted by: mblog (reply)
post date: 07.26.05 (5:00 pm)

Reply to: Kupov

Those three possibilities are far from comprehensive. The fourth one is that Genesis falls into the category of myths and legends and has nothing to do with whether there is a God.

There's no reason to believe that the ancient Hebrews took the story literally.

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posted by: Hypocracy (reply)
post date: 07.26.05 (6:28 pm)

Pharoh did not get his hardened so he could kill the children, he got his heart hardened because he was going to. God knew what was going to go down, so he hardened his heart so that way it wouldn't count against him.

Example, what if you could see an event in the future, such as one of your friends about to commit mass murder. This would happen tomorrow. YTou saw this today. Would you not attempt to do everything in your power to make it so it woudln't happen? Why not?

It's because you believe that murder is wrong, and you are also sparing someone from something. The most loving thing.

He didn't want people to distinguish good from evil is because that with evil comes guilt, with evil comes punishment. I don't care if you are Buddhist, Muslim, Agnostic, Atheist, whatever,... Everyone knows that punishment comes when you do something bad. It just comes in different forms. God did not want people to be punished, because the punishment for sin is hell.

Now, to break down your theory quickly, let me ask the questions. If God was evil, why would he create perfection on Earth for man? If he was this powerful being who wanted to rule, why would he give the choice of even eating of the tree in the first place? Wouldn't he just take away the tree? This then, goes into "Well, maybe it was a mistake". If it was a mistake, then he wouldn't be perfect. If he wasn't perfect, and did wrong, then what do you know? It throws the whole arguement out of the water, because he would therefore be lesser than his creation, and we all know, something lesser, can't cause something bigger.

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posted by: Kupov (reply)
post date: 07.26.05 (11:25 pm)

reply to dirtywords) I have no care fo what religious teaches if you want examples look at the quotes, when I say all Religions need to be destroyed i man religion should never have become a part of life, even IF Christianity is right look at what their God has done, and now they try to claim he has changed, But WHY would a perfect God change?

reply to hypocrasy) no they always had the ability to do bad hence the eating of the apples but they neevr knew they were doing wrong, so it seems Gods intentions were to keep his beings ignoratn, and yet God saw millions of years before he created Adam and Eve that they would do this, and instead of making them diferently he continued and continues to this day to blame us for their sins that he could have prevented.

Yes if pharoah had not had his heart hardened then he would have let them go, then God God made him do the opposite and then continued to kill all the children.

Also Moses made threats like Usama Bin Laden(I see no difference) so why would pharoa negotiate with a terrorist?

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posted by: Kupov (reply)
post date: 07.27.05 (2:37 am)

What? the bible or my post?

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posted by: BareKnuckleBxer (reply)
post date: 07.27.05 (6:29 am)

no, in the old testament you were REQUIRED to observe religious laws, and sacrifice animals before God, in the New testament, all you have to do is ask jesus into your heart, get it right.

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posted by: BareKnuckleBxer (reply)
post date: 07.27.05 (6:39 am)

Kupov- God didn't kill all the firstborns in egypt, he was merciful and he gave them a way out, put the lamb's blood on their door, and did they? did they kupov?? and look waht happened, big surprise.

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posted by: Kupov (reply)
post date: 07.27.05 (6:52 am)

so if a terrorist told you he would kill every one unless you listened to him would you take him seriously? no

the fact is he killed them all of them on purpose

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posted by: childish (reply)
post date: 07.27.05 (7:04 am)

Reply to: Kupov
you just aren't very good at articulating your opinion. I'd be more willing to engage in an argument if it seemed you knew what you were talking about. instead, you sound like a scared, bitter 14 year old. Learn a little bit more and then come back to argue your point.

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posted by: Kupov (reply)
post date: 07.27.05 (7:37 am)

childish either contribute and argue or leave, one more pointless comment and I will ban you.

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posted by: BareKnuckleBxer (reply)
post date: 07.27.05 (8:49 am)

theres a difference between God and a terrorist, back then, Pharoah was God, he knew they wouldn't listen to them, but he still gave them the chance.

and again, you're refering to the old testament, laws and regulations were different back then, the people of egypt were extremely sinful, and the punishment for crimes like that was 4 generations of curses. but he still gave them the way out. because... he's merciful!

Pharoah directly disobeyed an order from God to let his people go, and he along with his people were punished for it, just because God is merciful dosen't mean you can disobey him and get away with it.

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posted by: Kupov (reply)
post date: 07.27.05 (9:54 am)

you misunderstand if God KNEW that pharoah was going to do something there is no CHANCE of him ever doing something different, morever God FORCED phaoroah to not let them go.

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posted by: BareKnuckleBxer (reply)
post date: 07.27.05 (9:59 am)

no, God didn't decide anything with pharoah, its the same with christianity, he gives us the choice, and he knows what we will ultimately decide, but its still our decision.

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posted by: Kupov (reply)
post date: 07.27.05 (11:20 am)

look barknuckle you are bringing us back in a circle, what do you take this to mean?

THE LORD HARDENED PHARAOH'S HEART, SO HE WOULD NOT LET THE ISRAELITES GO OUT OF HIS COUNTRY.

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posted by: newbie (reply)
post date: 07.27.05 (5:43 pm)

so appropriate to argue about something you know so little about.

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posted by: BareKnuckleBxer (reply)
post date: 07.27.05 (5:55 pm)

yea i agree, i'm kinda getting tired of talking about this, you just don't get it, God isn't a dictator.

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posted by: Kupov (reply)
post date: 07.27.05 (8:39 pm)

What the heck? I never said God was a dictator listen please answer me straight up of God chose to herden oharoahs heart to the point to not allowing the isrealities to leave then God did that to commit murder, and if you cannot see you are blind, but if ANYONE will actually aexplain to me why he would say that without wanting to commit murder I will take it into account.

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posted by: newbie (reply)
post date: 07.28.05 (5:20 am)

found this.. maybe you can get something out of this.. although it seems you would rather just argue..

I Will Harden Pharaoh's Heart
by Aneel Aranha
Most casual readers of the Bible believe that the God of the Old Testament was a stern, unmerciful God subject to outbursts of great wrath which he ruthlessly poured upon the people. Yet, nothing could be farther from the truth. The Old Testament is replete with stories of God's mercy and how he forgave men their errant ways time and again, hoping that somewhere along the line they would have a change of heart and repent for their sins. There is perhaps no story more representative of this than the story about the Egyptian Pharaoh who was asked by Moses to set the Israelites free. The full story can be found in the book of Exodus; I recount it briefly here.

Moses had spent forty years in the desert land of Midian, where he had fled to escape the wrath of Pharaoh after killing one of his men. One day, as he led the flock he tended to the far side of the desert, he came upon Mount Horeb, where he saw what appeared to be a burning bush. He approached it and found himself confronted by the voice of God who commanded him to go to Pharaoh and instruct him to release the Israelites from bondage.

Moses quaked and tried to beg off, offering numerous excuses for his unsuitability for the task, but God would have none of it. Finally, Moses, accompanied by his brother Aaron, went to Pharaoh to plead for the Israelites. On God's instructions, they performed a number of miraculous signs hoping to soften the heart of Pharaoh, but arrogant—as only the very powerful can be—Pharaoh told them to get lost. Forced to turn the heat on, God initiated a series of steps designed to soften the heart of the proud ruler, beginning with the dramatic one where he turned the waters of the Nile into blood.


But the Egyptian magicians did the same thing by their secret arts and Pharaoh's heart became hard; he would not listen to Moses and Aaron, just as the Lord had said. (Exodus 7:22)
The Lord had, indeed, told the two brothers that Pharaoh would not listen to them. "I will harden his heart so that he will not let the people go," God had said (Exodus 4:21), in a statement that makes many readers raise questions about free will, and whether we truly possess it. If, as the statement seems to suggest, it was God who hardened Pharaoh's heart, then could Pharaoh really be blamed for making the choices he made? Let's see what actually happened.

Following the turning of water into blood, God sent a plague of frogs, hoping that this would soften Pharaoh's heart. It did—until God ended the plague. Then Pharaoh hardened his heart again. Plague after plague followed. A plague of gnats. A plague of flies. A plague on livestock. A plague of boils. A plague of hail. And each time the story was the same. Pharaoh would soften his heart until such time that God ended the plague, then he would harden it again.

Many of us see cruelty in this story. After all, what kind of a God would unleash such misery on a people? I, however, see God's mercy right through the entire tale. An unmerciful God would have simply nuked Pharaoh and all the Egyptians, rather than give them opportunity after opportunity to repent. That he had to resort to such drastic methods was simply because softer methods didn't work. I know of a modern fable that illustrates this beautifully.

****
A man standing on the terrace of a high rise building was taking in the view when he espied a couple of men hiding behind some bushes in the distance below. By their surreptitious behavior, it was evident that they didn't have any noble purposes in mind. A few meters away, a lovely young lady walked towards them, unmindful of the danger that awaited her just a few steps ahead.
***

The man on the terrace yelled out to the lady but she appeared to be hard of hearing because she didn't seem to hear the warning shouts. Hoping to attract her attention by another means, he reached into his pocket and fished out a ten dollar bill, which he crumpled and threw down. The note fell a few feet in front of the woman, who picked it up, grinned with delight at her good fortune and walked on.

Frantic, the man scooped up a handfull of gravel in his hands and flung it down, hoping that this would grab the woman's attention, but the lady just brushed the tiny little stones off her head, and kept walking.

The woman was almost upon the bandits now. In desperation, the man chucked the only thing he could find—a rather large piece of a brick. His aim was true and the woman staggered with its impact. Clutching at a bleeding scalp, she finally looked up to see her savior, who warned her of the danger ahead.
The rewards don't work with most of us, just as they didn't with Pharaoh. We often need to be hit on the head before we look up and see God. My own life has been an example of this [see Return of the Prodigal]. Though I lived very close to the edge, God kept me safe for the better part of my life, saving me from serious injury—and even death—innumerable times. Then, as I drew increasingly closer to falling over, God began chucking the equivalent of little pebbles as warnings. I began losing clients in my business. I had several minor collisions with the law. I began meeting with assorted accidents. I simply brushed them away just like the lady in the story did. Then God really began socking it to me. I lost my business. I landed in jail for assault. My wife threatened to take the kids and leave me. And then, when it seemed like all I had was gone (or going), I finally looked up and was saved.

Pharaoh unfortunately never looked up. He kept resisting God, despite the several plagues sent his way. And up to the point narrated in our story above, God never forced Pharaoh to resist against his will. Now, however, having demonstrated Pharaoh's own obstinacy and desire to resist, God simply pulled out the stops enabling Pharaoh to be in free fall on his path to destruction. A plague of locusts followed. Then a plague of darkness. And finally the dreadful plague on the firstborn, which finally made Pharaoh throw open the city gates to the Israelites and toss them out.

Would God really let a man plunge to his destruction? Yes, he would. There is confirmation of this in the New Testament, when Paul talks about God giving godless men "over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another"; "over to shameful lusts"; and "over to a depraved mind, to do what ought not to be done." (Romans 1)

God would do this for two reasons, and neither of them has anything to do with God "giving up" on men. One reason is in the hope that the pain and misery that being in sin leads to would eventually make the erring person see the light and bring him to repentance. The other is so that God's own purposes can be fulfilled, as happened in the case of Pharaoh.

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posted by: RedTigress (reply)
post date: 07.28.05 (12:13 pm)

Actually, in the Torah (what Christianity later adapted to be the Old Testament), the story is told that God was going to allow them to eat from the tree at a later date. He did want them to be enlightened and he did want them to prosper in that knowlege. He also wanted them to wait until he felt they were ready for it. (kind of like when your parents want you to eat dinner before you can have dessert).

By the very fact that God gave us free will shows that He wants us to be able to live without Him, however, he wants us to choose to live with Him in their lives.

With the fruit of the tree came the evil inclination that takes our free choice to the next level. Before that, we still had free choice, but we didn't have a reason or a need to sin. Now we do. With that, God wanted us to be able to have obstacles in our lives that we'd have to overcome so that when we received whatever rewards we get out of life, they are all the more sweeter.

God Hardened the Pharoahs heart so that it would be more difficult to make the decision to free the Jews. Pharoah still had the copacaty to choose to free them. He chose not to.

The reason why God killed the first borns of Egypt was as a just punishment for them trying to kill all the first born sons of Israel. The Torah says that every single Egyptian was guilty and had blood on their hands for such actions.

Your third quote seems to be a mistranslation from the Hebrew. I can't exactly decypher either what it means because it sounds like gobbledegook. Can you tell me the exact passage so as to get a better translation? That may shed some light on the problem.

And remember, the Christian concept of God is different than the origional Jewish concept. Mistranslations, misinterperatations, and outright reconstruing stories for their own needs is rampant throught Christianity. It's not that they try, it's just that they're so far removed from the actual text.

It very well may be that the god of Christianity is an evil god. . .

But that isn't the real God, now is it... It's only concepts mistakenly borrowed from the original and made into something different.

Don't even get me started on Jesus being the son of god but yet also god but yet also a man poppycock. Pagan influencs borrowed to make that newer religion as well, you see.

You may want to look at askmoses.com if you want to shed some light on these things with someone who knows better than I.

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posted by: Godsgirl (reply)
post date: 07.28.05 (1:03 pm)

May i say that you have little to back this up. God is wonderful and amazing and i think the real reason you say this is that you are begging inside for someone to prove you wrong. I may be wrong but I will be praying for you.

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posted by: Godsgirl (reply)
post date: 07.28.05 (1:14 pm)

About the whole hardening hearts, well God did this mercifully. Sounds crazy but read on. He knew pharaoh was not going to choose to follow HIm. so in turn He hardened his heart so that he would no longer be condemned for the rest of his sins, He did this so that he would not have to be punished more so than he already must be.

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posted by: Farfarello (reply)
post date: 07.28.05 (9:25 pm)

Reply to: Godsgirl
do you really think if god exists he wants to hear your "praying" a.k.a. bitching and whining about he has done everything wrong and that this and that is not right?

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posted by: Farfarello (reply)
post date: 07.28.05 (9:28 pm)

Reply to: Godsgirl
do you really think if god exists he wants to hear your "praying" a.k.a. bitching and whining about he has done everything wrong and that this and that is not right?

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posted by: mmmkay (reply)
post date: 07.29.05 (11:48 am)

Those without knowledge of their sins, are not bound by their consequences (thats just my opinion). For instance..a mentally retarded child who has no concept would not be judged in the same way that you and I would be judged.

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posted by: Kupov (reply)
post date: 07.29.05 (11:55 am)

So arguably then it is best to be ignorant of sin

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posted by: axiom (reply)
post date: 07.29.05 (4:26 pm)

Theoretically there are an infinite number of reasons, not three. Your logic is twisted and missused.

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posted by: Kupov (reply)
post date: 07.29.05 (5:39 pm)

it LEADS us to three reasonable conclusions

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posted by: axiom (reply)
post date: 07.30.05 (7:10 pm)

Reply to: Kupov
No it can lead us to any number of conclusions that are reasonable in any way.
perhaps the fruit was actually poisonous.
Perhaps god foresaw the bloody future of an educated humanity and strove to stop it.
you can't generate three conclusions and dub them the only logical three.

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posted by: axiom (reply)
post date: 07.30.05 (7:12 pm)

Reply to: axiom
The only reason you used those three conclusions out of all the possible ones, even though they are reasonable, is because they are the ones that best fit the point you wished to impress upon your readers.

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posted by: Acorn (reply)
post date: 07.30.05 (7:36 pm)

you are so wrong, the comments you owe me better pay off. GOD IS NOT 'THUS' EVIL. gosh, your really despearate to go to hell, eh? fine, jump down a building, see what happens.

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posted by: Kupov (reply)
post date: 07.30.05 (7:37 pm)

reply to axiom: ues definitly everyone does that and you are actually right however offtopic you may be so I will post another blog.

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posted by: graceshaker (reply)
post date: 08.05.05 (5:43 pm)

wow. i am late to the party here but i want to say a few things.

~ i want to apologize for the xians who have been sarcastic snide rude and dismissive. thats not the example set by Christ and they have portrayed him poorly in this dialogue.

~ the dilemma created in the opening argument is a false one. there are more than 3 options which can explain the situation - primarily option that understands we dont have all the information.

what weve been given is a story. its a story with purpose but like any story the purpose is not visible by taking one part out of the whole. the purpose of the garden and the tree and the choice cant be lifted from the rest of the story and rejected out of hand. the purpose of the pharaoh and the lambs blood and the deaths of the firstborn also cant be lifted from the rest of the story and understood properly.

to do so would be akin to taking 3 pages out of a harry potter book and dismissing the entire story based on those three pages. the truth is that the story makes sense as a whole and must be understood that way.

hope this makes sense. it may not be a very technical argument or whatever but this is how i understand it.

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posted by: Kupov (reply)
post date: 08.05.05 (7:53 pm)

Reply to: graceshaker
So it is okay if Harry Potter kills children, as long as he is a Christian he was in the right and it was Gods will, But he be dammned to Hell if he use theine evil spell of healing to cure such Children.

I have a feeling I missed a memo.

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posted by: graceshaker (reply)
post date: 08.05.05 (8:44 pm)

Reply to: Kupov
i dont understand. i have not advocated killing children nor condemned anyone for healing.

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posted by: RedTigress (reply)
post date: 08.08.05 (9:24 am)

Reply to: RedTigress

Interesting how no one had anything to say about my comment. ;)

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posted by: Kupov (reply)
post date: 08.08.05 (9:33 am)

Reply to: RedTigress
But why harden pharoahs heart at all? why not turn it to jelly? surely a LOVING God would have spared those children as well as pharoah.

And the fact that the torah says differently, though interesting is no concern Jews are wrong as well I think but because they are a minority I cannot attack them without being dubed racist.

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posted by: RedTigress (reply)
post date: 08.08.05 (9:38 am)

Reply to: Kupov

Because it was a test. Because he was giving Pharoah an even greater chance to have an even greater merit. Which he rejected. He wanted him, like all of us, to earn the good we acheive.

Not at all a racist thing because you say it in the tone of question and thoughtfulness, without another agenda. I don't think it's antisemitic to say what you're saying.

But I don't quite understand the last part of your comment. . .

"And the fact that the torah says differently, though interesting is no concern Jews are wrong as well I think"

My question I guess is in what way?

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posted by: Kupov (reply)
post date: 08.12.05 (9:50 pm)

Reply to: RedTigress
I am not Jewish so in the way that i do not believe in God or the Bible.

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posted by: RedTigress (reply)
post date: 08.13.05 (6:25 pm)

Reply to: Kupov

I sorta don't get what you mean.

How does your not being Jewish prohibit you from believing in God?

Is that even what you were saying? I'm lost! :p

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posted by: VancouverBound (reply)
post date: 08.19.05 (10:02 pm)

The scripture you pointed out is plainly repulsive and repugnant. Only a mind capable of cognitive dissonance could read passages like those and still believe in an omnibenevolent deity.

God's a lot like Santa, but for adults.

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